In a podcast at Zen is Stupid called “Privilege,” Gwen Bell makes some serious charges against middle-aged, middle-class (and wealthy) male American Buddhists whom she accuses of using Buddhism as another trapping of the good life, instead of as a base for doing good in the world. She also says that the reason women are slighted or unseen and non-whites are largely absent from Western Buddhism – in meatspace sanghas and online – is because of the toxic presence of certain white males that Western Buddhism attracts. Her remarks merit attention to assess the validity of the problem she identifies, which could lead to curative efforts, or, if she’s wrongheaded about much of this, to understand what all the grumbling is about. She is not the first to complain.
In another aspect, the “Privilege” conversation is troubling since Gwen seems clearly to be taking potshots at authors Brad Warner, Ethan Nichtern and Noah Levine (each of whom, separately, saw publication of his Buddhism book this year and each of whom Gwen interviewed as a member of the Buddhist Geeks team) and at Vincent Horn (her fellow Geek who openly, frequently writes and talks about his long meditation retreats, one of the activities Gwen disdains).
Zen is Stupid posts weekly audiocasts that are a conversation between Gwen and Patrick Reynolds concerning life topics. Past topics include stripping; blogging; ill-health; non-belief in enlightenment and difficult people. The conversations are all casual, always a bit goofy and spiked with a little obtuse or politically incorrect sentiment, usually from Gwen who is more the firebrand of the pair, with Patrick damping things down when he's not trying to rev up passions.
In addition to her weekly ZIS thing and being the most prolific Geeks interviewer, Gwen writes reams about herself at gwenbell.com and, [I think] with long-time boyfriend Patrick, is owner of a yoga studio in Yokohama, Japan. She is currently on a year-long sabbatical, of sorts [I think], from her duties as an instructor at the studio.
White Male Buddhists. Gwen’s Gripe.
There is uncertainty in the “Privilege” podcast as to the parameters of the group that is being criticized. The text blurb in the RSS feed reads “Let's be honest, American Buddhism is dominated by middle-aged white dudes. What does this mean?” In the early part of the audio, the terms used are “stupid white Buddhists, most of them male,” “stupid white Buddhist zen men,” “white middle-class men [Buddhist teachers]” “Buddhism, a pursuit of wealthy white men” “middle-class white men [in Buddhism]” “privileged white folks,” and, near the end of the podcast, “Buddhist jerks,” and “asshole drivers.”
Zen is Stupid podcasts are unrehearsed conversations that are uninhibited. It is healthy (maybe) for there to be a place for that. It’s a kind of brainstorm that encourages black clouds and thunder, with two people whipping themselves up into a bit of a frenzy. So if it is frustratingly non-conducive to close scrutiny, is self-contradicting and a bit crazy, that’s to be expected. I should allow for that. But such an environment where people are encouraging each other’s over-reaches can become surreal with hypocrisy. And when it is done in front of the whole wide world, it may be more of a wild and hurtful and damaging thing than a society-healthy means to touch on issues that are taboo, yet need to be explored.
From this rough slightly-abridged transcript scrap, starting from near the beginning of the podcast, Gwen gets into her issues:
Gwen: What’s my gripes? … Well I was reading a review recently in a Shambhala publication … and there were three books being reviewed, all by up-and-coming Buddhist teachers, all of them white middle-class men. [The review that Gwen is referring to can be found here.]…[A]t the end of the piece … it says this “If there’s one concluding observation to make regarding the next generation of Buddhist teachers, it’s the absence of women’s voices. … Although Sumi Loundon’s Blue Jean Buddha: Voices of Young Buddhists rounded up younger practitioners of both genders, young female teachers have yet to develop a high profile. This is ironic … given that a distinguishing characteristic of Western Buddhism is gender egalitarianism. So while plenty of first-generation Western female teachers have influenced students and made their mark on contemporary practice, on the matter of second-generation female Buddhist teachers, you’ll have to stay tuned.”
Patrick: So you feel that Buddhism in America is basically a pursuit of wealthy white men?
Gwen: Right! It’s almost another thing to add to an already very rich, full, fulfilling life, and then waving the suffering flag like “Oh we all have suffering; we all have suffering” but failing to see that most of these middle-class white men are pretty close to samadhi compared to the rest of the developing or developmentally challenged world.
Patrick: I totally feel you on that. …People’s idea on suffering is all relative. … Suffering isn’t like a glass that gets more full. Pain is pain, right? So what’s the difference between
a girl-who-doesn’t-get-into-a-sorority’s pain and someone in war-torn Africa who’s lost her family? For both of those people that’s the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. Is there a difference? What do you think?
Gwen: The major difference from where I stand, or sit, is the capability of these privileged white folks to get out there and do something and act and to creatively reduce suffering in the world rather than from their high-horse wave their “I am suffering” flags. Do you understand what I’m saying?
Patrick: I think that’s a much better way to go about it. Because I don’t really think it’s cool to say “you guys are rich, therefore your suffering doesn’t count as much.”
Gwen: No, no. That’s not my accusation at all. The point I’m really trying to make is “Get a grip guys. You’re suffering; we’re all suffering. But you have so many more options. You have health care available to you, and you have so many options to reduce your suffering than many other inhabitants on planet earth.
Patrick: Sometimes I think that being born American, especially a white American, is kind of like being born into royalty. … We’re white Americans. We have been given a very good chance, here, to do whatever we want with our lives.
Gwen: That’s true. And I think that both of us are making the choice to do things that elevate the lives of those around us in any way we can and in the communities of the people in which we’re a part. So I think we have been very pro-active and I think this idea of Engaged Buddhism and being engaged in the world instead of thinking of going away for two months to do another retreat. What about taking those two months and taking them and getting involved in Habitat for Humanity and helping people? You know, in yoga there’s this idea of Karma Yoga, some sort of “giving back.”
In response to refining questions from Patrick, Gwen better defines her “gripes.” Gwen says the kind of male Buddhist that bothers her is not the guy who quietly engages in his practice. “The kind of guy that bothers me is more vocal, and quicker to fling poo and spends numerous hours on chat boards and that sort of thing and instead of contributing to a community maybe breaking a community apart. That kind of thing.” She says, “But that’s not the only thing. These books that I’ve been reading by middle-aged or younger white dudes aren’t really doing much to stoke my fire as a practitioner. And I guess my beef is just sort of with this rehashing what the gurus have already said, rehashing what the masters have already talked about, trying to make it come off, like, ‘this is accessible or approachable by a twentysomething Buddhist.’ Give me a break.”
You have to think the “middle-aged or younger white dude” writers she’s focusing on are Brad Warner, Ethan Nichtern and Noah Levine, the three guys whose books were reviewed on the page of the Shambhala publication ["
Buddhism's Young Turks";
Shambhala Sun; Sept. 2007 issue] Gwen read from that began the podcast. The three dudes fit the description, in addition each one of them was interviewed by Gwen for
Buddhist Geeks this year. The Brad Warner Interview can be found here:
Part I,
Part II,
Part III. The Ethan Nichtern Interview has been partially posted:
Part I,
Part II. The Noah Levine Interview was conducted, but Gwen told us in a
BG podcast midyear,
a conversation among the Geeks, that she felt the interview was too much of a book push, so she didn’t turn it in to Ryan to eventually get posted.
Where are all the Women? The Black Buddhists? The Latino Buddhists?
Later in the Gwen-Patrick conversation …
Patrick: …. let me ask you, Where are the women? Where are the black people? Where are the Latino Buddhists?
Gwen: Maybe they’re like “Do I want to be part of this Boys’ Club? I don’t think so.” … I’m just throwing that out there. That being said, I think a lot of female and people of color and all sorts of Buddhists are doing their Karma Yoga, as it were -- their Karma Buddhism -- quietly, in perhaps a lot less -vocal, -ostentatious way. That’s how it’s been for eons, I guess. That’s how it always will be. You know. Maybe that’s how it always will be. The people who are absolutely crucial in building a foundation for all these things to happen, as usual, are the ones who aren’t getting recognition, aren’t speaking up, or 
whatever. I mean, I’ve made the call multiple times on my blog, including Buddhist Geeks, saying “Where are the women?” When the comment sections are just getting deep in academia, or whatever, women don’t want to get involved in that a lot of times, because our practice and, perhaps, our ethos is living from the heart, connecting with people, taking what we can from books that we‘ve read and the teachers that we’ve sat with and practiced with and integrating that to what we’re doing on a daily basis.”
Patrick: Maybe the challenge for yourself is letting these dudes, these people, talk and just letting it go. You’re not going to shut ‘em up. Nobody’s going to listen to this podcast and say “You know what? I’m going to stop being a Buddhist jerk.”
Gwen: It’s true. But what about who’s going to answer the call when the call comes out: “Where are all the Buddhist women?” What about being a voice.
Patrick: Who you?
Gwen: Yeah, me and all the other Buddhist women who are out there going “Hi. What’s happening here?”
Patrick: You’ve gotta set up a system. How about a women’s Buddhist organization?
Gwen: I was thinking about DatingTheDharma.com
From here, as things wrap up, it gets strange. Patrick claims a connection between American royalty and Buddha - that seems completely backwards, if you know anything about Buddha’s life and ill-conceived if the point is that we should all become Engaged Buddhists. Buddha was not known for his construction of homes for the poor.
Gwen feels better after doing the podcast. What she takes from it is that she should just “let go and let that conversation [between the middle-aged white guys] continue to be had and just maybe rise above the din.”
And Patrick then says “the only people who are impressed by asshole drivers are other assholes. You know what I mean? So, I think that the only people listening to all this chatter on the boards, you know, and all this ‘I know the finer details of this sutra, and you don‘t.’ Let ‘em do it, whatever. They‘re not going to listen to this podcast, and that‘s good.”
Ethan Nichtern and Noah Levine Respond
Both Ethan Nichtern and Noah Levine gave me their responses to the
Zen is Stupid podcast.
Both were troubled by the gross generalizations and slapdash way with “facts” in the podcast, but both agreed with Gwen’s sense that something’s wrong in the state of Buddhism.
“I felt that her perspectives were unresearched and unfounded on anything but a surface glance at Buddhism in America today,” wrote Noah. “[but]…her heart is in the right place...and I agree with her general sentiment.”
Ethan wrote, “I totally agree with the frustration behind Gwen’s sentiment. Totally. Sometimes I think I was born a white male because it gives me a lot of dark historical karma to purify…
“Also I think we need to be very precise demographically, which Gwen and Patrick’s conversation fails to be. There are very few truly rich Americans involved in the dharma. Very few. If there were more, American Buddhism would have more political and social clout than it does. About three people out of the many hundreds of meditators I know can afford Hummers. The idea that Buddhism is a pursuit of the wealthy is not backed up at all statistically. It is a very convenient misconception. American dharma is mostly a 40- and 50- and 60-something middle-class white pursuit. That is true.”
Noah wrote in defense of his and Ethan’s programs. “Ethan and his community are very engaged, working for social justice and equality. I have been told that my community is probably the most diverse and perhaps the most engaged group of Buddhists currently evolving …. The majority of people who study with me are involved in social and political action. And I, myself, have been serving the incarcerated population for over ten years. I can’t comment on Brad’s work because I am not familiar enough with what he is up to.”
Ethan wrote critically of the
Shambhala Sun piece. “[W]hen I read the [review Gwen] referred to, I felt a little bad because [the writer] made it seem sort of like the three of us (Noah, Brad, and I) were acting as some intentional white male movement. I also felt bad because now there’s finally three “young" (none of whom are actually young) authors, and we’re already getting blamed for being men? It was hard enough for us to throw our voices into the self-help-obsessed, happiness-in-three-easy-steps publishing ring.”
Noah and Ethan ended their emails with similar good feeling about Gwen. Wrote Noah, “I met Gwen once...she interviewed me… I am sure she will become the engaged solution that she sees as currently missing.” Ethan wrote, “I like Gwen a lot. I hope she becomes a meditation teacher (a note to anyone who wants to do that – it is the hardest, most draining, and most fulfilling thing you could do). I hope she writes a great book. That would help solve the problems she refers to.”
My two cents.
My feelings are harsh toward Gwen and Patrick. But irony tumbling on stacks of irony, I do see, at this moment, the difficult in making a complaint about complaining. But my complaint isn’t really with their complaining (I tell myself). At its base, there is a difficult topic they are endeavoring to deal with and things that annoy them that they are trying to understand. And that’s good. I admire spunk and a journey of investigation.
Still, from my position judging others (horrors; I wish I wouldn‘t do that) they exhibit evidence of self-cherishing that goes off the scale.
I don’t know everything Gwen and Patrick are talking about, though I have little doubt I’m included in the class of folks they disdain. God knows, I can’t afford a Hummer, but I exhibit core characteristics.
While I’m not academic, I’m argumentative and more comfortable with objective issues than with subjective feelings. I have the right skin color, a penis, come from the middle-class even though I’ve dropped below that now, and the gray hairs are taking over like crabgrass.
I don’t know chat rooms or forums. I haven’t posted to one since I was tossed from the
Tricycle forum for the fifth time in the late 90s. But I comment on blogs and tend to voice my heartfelt disagreements.
I like disagreement -- rather, I should say, discussions where we dig into things. If someone is comfortable disagreeing with you, they’re probably telling you the truth.
When everyone is sticky nice, agreeing with each other, I don’t consider that to be a tranquil community, or somewhere where you can learn anything. I consider that to be something from a fundamentalist church or the Stepford Wives. Rather, heated discourse among self-aware, self-deprecating people = Good. Insistence that ostracizing half the people, or complaining about complaining, is the path to Utopia = Bad.
Rising above the din isn’t something Gwen and Patrick are going to do right now. They ARE the din in the
Zen is Stupid podcasts. They are the dinnest of the din. And the idea of “rising above” isn’t the path in any Buddhism I’m aware of - except for that stay-away-from-fools thing in the Dhammapada.
If I were to make a recommendation to Gwen and Patrick, and Buddha Knows I’m arrogant enough to do just that, I’d do it right here and now, since I have the expectation they will read this post.
So here it is [It‘s derivative guru stuff, no doubt. But read it, all the same.]:
- Learn some appreciation for what you disdain. I don’t claim to live fully up to that ideal, but I do somewhat and I believe in it. It’s amazing what you can learn to appreciate in the lives and approaches to things of others.
- Endeavor to be factually precise. At least when you cut corners, feel bad about it.
- Doubt there are conspiracies. People are always more messed up than you think, unique and too cranky to gel a good conspiracy, and there is always too much chaos and disorder in people's lives to sustain any secretiveness. There is no network of middle-aged white guys in Buddhism, either in some grand scheme or in any locality.
There. Don’t you hate that, you twentysomethings? That middle-aged pontificating. But you can never know something until you take it on as your own. THAT is what those annoying middle-aged (or slightly younger) men are into. They are a step further into the dharma (they think, at least). It isn’t “recited dogma” anymore for them; they are getting a truer glimpse of the dharma and are jazzed by that. They have their own view into the forest and want to test it and share it.
What you are wrongheaded about, many of you twentysomethings, is thinking in terms that you aren’t yet adults, that those middle-aged so-and-so's are lording things over you. But as most of these older folks know, everybody past childhood, in the most important sense, is the same age. You’re the same age as your parents. You’re the same age as your grandparents. You aren’t really going to get more mature, you’re only going to mature by realizing you are mature. And that you’re arrived NOW and are as much in control as you’re ever going to be. Thus, there is no such thing as middle-aged fuddy-duddies. Adults stop thinking they're children.
God. I could write a book.
But the important question is how do we get many more young people and non-whites to get bit by the Buddhism bug? And how do we encourage more women to make their voices heard? I don’t know.
11/5/07 Update: In the description box
of the 44th episode posted by
Buddhist Geeks it is announced that Gwen is no longer a member of the
BG Team. The wording is thus: "We ... want to thank Gwen Bell for the interview, of which it will be her last here on
Buddhist Geeks."
